| Forum: Technical Forum |
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| Topic: What do u know about Car-o-Liner rack |
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JMR
Senior Member
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Posts: 324
Location:
CLINTON TWP
Registered:
December 2007
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Re: What do u know about Car-o-Liner rack
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Fri, 20 November 2009 14:17
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You guys in the 'isles' are just so far ahead of us!!
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| Topic: inner fenders on c5 vette |
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Posts: 11
Location:
Athens, Georgia
Registered:
January 2009
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inner fenders on c5 vette
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Fri, 20 November 2009 03:18
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I want to start by saying i do a lot of older restoration work but i had a friend who has a 2002 z06 vette and wrecked the front end. Only damage looked to be the front bumper and very little then. After i agreed to fix it and tore it down I found the inner fender was busted where the front brake cooling ducts attach. It looks like to me the inner fenders are glued in am I on the right page or am I missing something. Any vette guys out there if so any advice would be helpfull.
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JMR
Senior Member
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Posts: 324
Location:
CLINTON TWP
Registered:
December 2007
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Re: inner fenders on c5 vette
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Fri, 20 November 2009 13:00
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Almost all inner structure on C6 are glued to the 'frame'. GM has a procedure to replace the parts, follow it to the 'letter' and save yourself allot of time. Check fit several times prior to the glue and be sure to support all area once glue has been applied. Be sure to use the proper glue.
Also in the rear GM has splice areas mapped out on the rear inner body, 'tub' again procedures can be obtained from GM.
Good Luck
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Posts: 439
Location:
VIRGINIA
Registered:
October 2007
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Re: inner fenders on c5 vette
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Fri, 20 November 2009 15:01
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fit fit glue. they arent too awful to replace just don't skimp on the adhesive and let it sit over night regardless of the products work time.
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| Forum: Main Forum |
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| Topic: EVERY car should have one of these. |
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Posts: 452
Registered:
June 2003
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EVERY car should have one of these.
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Fri, 20 November 2009 00:05
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Trunk Monkey
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JMR
Senior Member
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Posts: 324
Location:
CLINTON TWP
Registered:
December 2007
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Re: EVERY car should have one of these.
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Fri, 20 November 2009 12:22
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Trying to get one for the office that can spot a stupid adjuster!!!
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| Topic: GEICO Quote Of The Day |
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JMR
Senior Member
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Posts: 324
Location:
CLINTON TWP
Registered:
December 2007
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Re: GEICO Quote Of The Day
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Fri, 20 November 2009 12:50
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| MattDewalt wrote on Thu, 19 November 2009 16:55 |
The quote below is regarding a cracked bumper absorber that is currently on backorder:
"Can't we just reuse the old one? It's just a piece of foam, it's not like it does anything anyway."
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Ouote from a Citizens adjuster on a foam absorber also
"It is just a small piece glue it will be fine"
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Posts: 2789
Location:
Missoura
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: GEICO Quote Of The Day
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Fri, 20 November 2009 14:27
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My favorite Geico quote was a reply when I asked "how would you repair this"
"Why are you asking me? You are the one repairing the car."
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Posts: 1767
Location:
Pelham, AL
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: GEICO Quote Of The Day
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Fri, 20 November 2009 14:50
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| MattDewalt wrote on Thu, 19 November 2009 16:55 |
The quote below is regarding a cracked bumper absorber that is currently on backorder:
"Can't we just reuse the old one? It's just a piece of foam, it's not like it does anything anyway."
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My favorite GEICO quotes (said to a customer in front of me)
"He's trying to make money and GEICO is trying to save money."
"We see things on Truman's estimates that we don't see anywhere else." (and Truman appreciates those compliments) 
and my all time favorite.......
"Truman's shop can't re-repair our DRP hack job, you'll have to take it back to the preferr.......what's this? A letter threatening a lawsuit because we failed to inspect these repairs as promised on our website???.....send them a check for the full amount of the shop's re-repair estimate and tell them to have the vehicle fixed wherever they want." 
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| Topic: ESTIMATING SYSTEMS |
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Posts: 439
Location:
VIRGINIA
Registered:
October 2007
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Re: ESTIMATING SYSTEMS
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Fri, 20 November 2009 14:59
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Trench preach it brother. for giggles i had a nationwide est on ccc come in which i use so i started a new one and put it in exactly like the y wrote theirs and boy what a difference their system still deducts painting bumpers as if they are still on the car.CCC removed that little quirk last year but not on nationwides system.You just got to love the double standards they have. And as you say i sent them my est as the supp.Thats why when you call whomever your estimating co. tech you get the old press 2 for ins comp help.
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| Topic: Body and Paint work question |
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Posts: 2789
Location:
Missoura
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 00:26
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| kevin wrote on Thu, 19 November 2009 21:38 |
Just 24 spray outs later and bingo, we have a paint match!
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Posts: 905
Location:
Pa.
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 02:50
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hummmmmm,
Based on the replies so far its become apparent that maybe "I'm the only one".... that doesn't suck at matching paint.
Maybe I've been taking my skills for granted, thinking most of you Hot Dog painters could match paint.
Maybe I was wrong.
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Trench,
I see you don't have time to explain aaallll the things wrong with my earlier Post, so how about explaining just ONE of the many things wrong.
Thanks in advance.
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Posts: 2789
Location:
Missoura
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 03:01
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| Fred Kolesar wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 02:50 |
I see you don't have time to explain aaallll the things wrong with my earlier Post, so how about explaining just ONE of the many things wrong.
Thanks in advance.
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Huh?
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Posts: 819
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 05:31
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Fred I think your statement makes perfect sense.
The hardest part for me is deciding what the "average" consumer can see compared to my own trained eye, and what course of action to take based on that.
I think Trench meant to reply to another posting....
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Posts: 905
Location:
Pa.
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 13:01
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| Quote: |
Author Topic : Trench
Re: Body and Paint work question Thu, 19 November 2009 16:26
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Fred Kolesar wrote on Thu, 19 November 2009 11:57
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rossignol001.
Undetectable Panel painting can be done.
I've been doing it for about thirty of my forty plus years of collision repair. It takes a special skill set and a lot of patients (spl) I do mean a LOT.
Time-wise, it normally won't be any quicker (cheaper) than removing the trim, etc. on the adjacent panels and prepping them for blending.
BUT.!! It will keep more of your automobile's paint ORIGINAL and one would think lesson it's DV.
I have about an 95% success rate with Panel Painting. But before I start I will inform my customer that sometimes... I don't understand exactly why, but sometimes I just can't get the color right enough for my trained eye to be happy with the match no matter how hard I try. And for that reason.. I will not guaranty an undetectable match.
Although often when my customer comes to see the car and discuss blending...... they can't see the Miss-match and are happy with the job, as is.
...........
What I see, and most consumers don't see is when looking at a Panel Paint or Blend....
Color is spherical and changes as it reflects from a surface at 360 degrees around the panel, plus dead-on flat with the surface of that panel. When one lays that Hood out in the sunlight with a Color Test Panel in the middle, it needs to Match looking directly down at the Panel & Hood. It also must match as one steps back and slowly circles the Hood at every degree, and then steps back a few more feet and circles the Hood again. Always looking for even the slightest mis-match.
What usually happens is as I slowly circle the Hood I'm thinking, looking good... looking good... looking good... Dang'it at this position the color panel flips a little darker and redder than the Hood! I continue circling, looking good... looking good... looking good... Dang-it again now at this position the color panel looks lighter and bluer! Oh-boy.. here we go.
At this point one has to be able to alter the color so the two opposing mis-match area's are brought into the correct reflective color, knowing that while the mis-match angles are improving the rest of the angles are drifting slightly away from a match with the Hood.
Then.... add to that the effect of different lighting, such as Florescent and/or Incandescent that may be the garage the car is parked in at home..... and lets not forget the different types of Street Lights.
I'm going to stop here. [I don't want to bring on a migraine thinking about the one's I couldn't match]
The above is why most painter's won't even attempt panel painting. And I doubt any Insurer Production (as in.. getem in, getem out] Shop will or can take the time to Panel Paint match.
Finding a shop that will Panel Paint may be difficult, but if its important to you, (as it would be if it were my automobile) surely someone in your area will be able to panel paint your automobile and achieve a match you will be happy with.
Sorry if my rambling words are confusing.
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There are so many things wrong with this statement, that I don't even know where to begin.
Teamwork is the fuel that allows common people to produce uncommon results.
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Fred Kolesar wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 02:50
I see you don't have time to explain aaallll the things wrong with my earlier Post, so how about explaining just ONE of the many things wrong.
Thanks in advance.
Huh?
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================================
======================================
Trench,
From the way I view & read this forum your comments appear to be directed at me.......
Are they ??
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Posts: 2789
Location:
Missoura
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 14:22
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Sorry Fredo. I meant to respond to Chris's statement. I was using my phone to respond and it doesn't always do what I tell it to do  . I am at my desk now, so that should not happen again.
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Posts: 160
Location:
Okotoks, Canada
Registered:
April 2009
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Posts: 439
Location:
VIRGINIA
Registered:
October 2007
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 14:47
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just repaint the whole car.
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Posts: 2789
Location:
Missoura
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 14:48
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You know what Chris, for someone who claims and complains about personal attacks, you sure are leading by example. It's obvious by your own admission that you have seen incorrect panel painting in your area, and further that how can you make such assumption(s) that Fred's work fits that catagory. My father once told me, be careful how much you think you know about someone, because you are probably wrong.
Painters who panel paint, although rare in a production setting, have good success. Body shops at the factory do it all the time, so whose to say an experianced painter in a shop somewhere can't also perform at that level of achievement? As it would appear that the odds in your opinion are in your favor, I understand that there are some extremely affordable "high roller" packages in Vegas availible now. 
[Updated on: Fri, 20 November 2009 14:49]
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Posts: 160
Location:
Okotoks, Canada
Registered:
April 2009
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 14:54
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| Trench wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:48 |
You know what Chris, for someone who claims and complains about personal attacks, you sure are leading by example. It's obvious by your own admission that you have seen incorrect panel painting in your area, and further that how can you make such assumption(s) that Fred's work fits that catagory. My father once told me, be careful how much you think you know about someone, because you are probably wrong.
Painters who panel paint, although rare in a production setting, have good success. Body shops at the factory do it all the time, so whose to say an experianced painter in a shop somewhere can't also perform at that level of achievement? As it would appear that the odds in your opinion are in your favor, I understand that there are some extremely affordable "high roller" packages in Vegas availible now.
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Not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot is it? I have decided to take a more proactive approach and to quit complaining and simply fight fire with fire. I promise you fred is no better at painting than anyone else out there.
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Posts: 1767
Location:
Pelham, AL
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 15:05
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Not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot is it? I have decided to take a more proactive approach and to quit complaining and simply fight fire with fire. I promise you fred is no better at painting than anyone else out there.
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Well if you promise, then I guess it's OK.
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Posts: 439
Location:
VIRGINIA
Registered:
October 2007
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 15:31
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when in doubt blend. for the time it takes to mess with multiple sprayouts the job could be done and gone. On the other hand I have had a few occasions where a silver was panel shot and matched but it is very rare with silvers if fred has the ability to do it on a more regular basis great.As for giving him any crap about it sometimes people maybe better at something than the rest of us.I personally blend adjacent panels to aviod any color match issues just my way of doing it.one thing you learn quick in this industry is never assume anything.
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Posts: 2789
Location:
Missoura
Registered:
January 2005
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Posts: 82
Location:
mobile
Registered:
October 2009
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 15:44
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Of course your not going to see panel painted cars going down the road if they were done successfully.
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Posts: 1767
Location:
Pelham, AL
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 15:44
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Hell we'll use multiple spray out cards before even blending. 
Our PPG rep says we're too picky and that most shops on color match. 
You can see bad blend jobs on the road just as easily as bad panel paints.
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Posts: 1767
Location:
Pelham, AL
Registered:
September 2004
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Posts: 403
Location:
il
Registered:
November 2007
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 16:43
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I asked a ppg rep once many moons ago why a factory pack can of paint almost always matched perfect, blendable at least when anything off our bank wouldnt even blend. He said the factory or lab that mixes the factory pack colors have thousands of tints-toners to tweak color when a shops mixing system only may have 100 or so. YA i understand many variants exist with the same code but i swear the crap would blend every time. Blends should be done only after a darn close butt match is there, because a cheesy blend does look worse than a bad butt. Id would assume that if fred was to blend his work, this would make him a really good PAINTER not a paint applicator, one of the best likely.
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Posts: 2789
Location:
Missoura
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 17:07
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I have a good friend of mine who is the body shop manager at the Ford Plant in Norfolk, VA. She would further your comments pnlbtr4life because the factory rarely ever blends and panel paints most of the time. I am going to give her a call after lunch to get the specifics.
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Posts: 1767
Location:
Pelham, AL
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 18:21
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| Trench wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 17:07 |
I have a good friend of mine who is the body shop manager at the Ford Plant in Norfolk, VA. She would further your comments pnlbtr4life because the factory rarely ever blends and panel paints most of the time. I am going to give her a call after lunch to get the specifics.
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I know some dealers that have sold trucks and cars and damaged doors and tried to take doors off unsold vehicles of the same color.......not all of them matched.
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Posts: 905
Location:
Pa.
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 19:05
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| Quote: |
I asked a ppg rep once many moons ago why a factory pack can of paint almost always matched perfect, blendable at least when anything off our bank wouldnt even blend. He said the factory or lab that mixes the factory pack colors have thousands of tints-toners to tweak color when a shops mixing system only may have 100 or so. YA i understand many variants exist with the same code but i swear the crap would blend every time. Blends should be done only after a darn close butt match is there, because a cheesy blend does look worse than a bad butt. Id would assume that if fred was to blend his work, this would make him a really good PAINTER not a paint applicator, one of the best likely.
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Another reason paint company "factory packs" match better is because they don't mix it by the Pint or Quart. They mix large batches of one color. So if one of their mixers accidentally add an extra Pint or so of Blue to that vat of Green, it likely wouldn't be noticeable. [and if someone does notice.. they can allways blame your painter or equipment for the problem]
Naaaa. they wouldn't do thaaaaaaaaat.
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Personally I prefer "panel painting", for many or the same reasons as the Chrysler owner.
And I never said don't "Blend". I often use a Blend to improve the color match.
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To be clear, my comments were to the Chrysler owner that only wanted the damaged panel painted. He wanted to preserve as much of the OEM paint as possible. If rossignol001 were in my area I would take the time and make my best effort to achieve that "Panel Paint" match.
For the life of me.... I can't see why anyone would have a problem with that.
When I get it right....... Great. When I can only get it close & before I spray any paint of the car .... I call my customer, tell them its close, but not quite right. They come to the shop, and take a look at the Test Panel.
Sometimes they see at some angles it might be slightly redder & darker, while at another angle it might be bluer & lighter, or whatever.
At this point [since it is their automobile] they decide...... go ahead and panel paint [even though I'm telling them that from certain angles I can see the mis-match] ........ or...... they say, naaa, your right Dang-it go ahead and Blend the next panel.
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Posts: 82
Location:
mobile
Registered:
October 2009
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 19:29
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I don't know if I'm the only one, but sometimes the cleared panel does not seem like it matches the next panel exactly.
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Posts: 160
Location:
Okotoks, Canada
Registered:
April 2009
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 19:41
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| Trench wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 15:39 |
| Chris Clarke wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 14:54 |
I promise you fred is no better at painting than anyone else out there.
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Please provide evidence/documentation to support this statement. If not, it's not credible. If this is what you believe, than we will just leave it at that. Nice try Chris, it's evident that your feet are quite larger than mine.
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You provide me evidence that he is as good as he states. Otherwise he is not credible. I just read his last post and it sounds like he just throws mud against the wall and hopes some of it sticks. I would ask a female if it matched before I got another male, who is probably as color blind as fred, if he thought it was close enough.
Chris
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Posts: 82
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mobile
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 20:31
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Sometimes what looks close enough on a chip, looks a whole lot worse on the car. But if the customer commited and said close enough, he's kind of stuck with the job and will just drive away unhappy. Then his friends may make fun of it and he feels even worse, but still reluctant to take it back since he said "close enough". I would never ask a customer if a color matched, I would just let them tell me if they're unsatisfied.
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Posts: 160
Location:
Okotoks, Canada
Registered:
April 2009
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 21:18
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| kevin wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 20:31 |
Sometimes what looks close enough on a chip, looks a whole lot worse on the car. But if the customer commited and said close enough, he's kind of stuck with the job and will just drive away unhappy. Then his friends may make fun of it and he feels even worse, but still reluctant to take it back since he said "close enough". I would never ask a customer if a color matched, I would just let them tell me if they're unsatisfied.
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Kevin, neither would I. I have had a more than a dozen painters want to work for me in the past that could not pass the color blind tests we give them. Few shops do this and then wonder why the painter can't get it right. It grows really tiresome when people posting here give advice that applies only to them, because of their obvious superiority. For the most part, your average tech is not a freak of nature, they are human. Having said that I would not expect a paint tech to butt match a car, unless he had sprayed out a card and felt really good about it. I also would not tell a customer if a tech was any good at all he could do it. Under promise and over deliver. Leave your pride at home.
Chris
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JMR
Senior Member
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Posts: 324
Location:
CLINTON TWP
Registered:
December 2007
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 22:22
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| Trench wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 17:07 |
I have a good friend of mine who is the body shop manager at the Ford Plant in Norfolk, VA. She would further your comments pnlbtr4life because the factory rarely ever blends and panel paints most of the time. I am going to give her a call after lunch to get the specifics.
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This is interesting as I know the factory does two types of repairs One is 'high bake' that is the production line paint and the other is 'low bake'. The differance is the temperature of the bake.
The low bake is the same process as ours in the 'aftermarket'.
This begs the question if the vehicle is repaired in the factory using the same products an procedures as we do does that vehicle suffer from DV? After all it was repaired in the same manner as we repair.
Another interesting point most door handles mirrors and all bumpers are painted in shops by vendors who use the same products as us!!
My thoughts are if it is repaired correctly it is just that correct, no matter if the factory repairs it or we do.
I know many times we have removed paint on a new vehicle to find more than one paint thickness. Sometimes we could tell if it was painted in low bake or high bake.
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JMR
Senior Member
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Posts: 324
Location:
CLINTON TWP
Registered:
December 2007
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 22:35
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[quote title=Fred Kolesar wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 19:05
To be clear, my comments were to the Chrysler owner that only wanted the damaged panel painted. He wanted to preserve as much of the OEM paint as possible. [/quote]
The only question is: is it really a high bake paint or has it been repaired in the factory with the same products we use?
I do not see the point in working so hard on a panel paint job when the products are here to blend that the factory uses to repair and warranty. What is the point? If no one knows, no one knows. Proof is in the repaired factory car. I have seen too many to say it is a rare thing.
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Posts: 819
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November 2003
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Re: Body and Paint work question
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Fri, 20 November 2009 22:46
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| Big-T wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 18:21 |
| Trench wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 17:07 |
I have a good friend of mine who is the body shop manager at the Ford Plant in Norfolk, VA. She would further your comments pnlbtr4life because the factory rarely ever blends and panel paints most of the time. I am going to give her a call after lunch to get the specifics.
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I know some dealers that have sold trucks and cars and damaged doors and tried to take doors off unsold vehicles of the same color.......not all of them matched.
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I got a used pearl white door in excellent condition for a Sonata of the same color back in the spring. When it showed up from the salvage yard I thought I was in heaven.....until I put it on the car. It was easily 5-6 shades off. Both colors were factory, too.
I almost had to cut it in it was so off
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